tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-811245612519910855.post2431867863831949362..comments2023-10-30T07:38:49.968-04:00Comments on Or else, what?: Or else, what?Alexhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03722157675784558619noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-811245612519910855.post-50822605659235610582010-09-06T15:30:43.674-04:002010-09-06T15:30:43.674-04:00Also, I forgot to mention this earlier, but I thin...Also, I forgot to mention this earlier, but I think that this is one of the best and most thoughtful posts of yours on the subject.<br /><br />As far as morality goes, I still genuinely find it hard to understand morality from a non-theist perspective. How do you make decisions about what things are right or wrong, and what happens when you're talking about decisions with consequences far bigger than painting graffiti?Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17986483712873196944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-811245612519910855.post-15632085906489013602010-09-06T14:08:34.372-04:002010-09-06T14:08:34.372-04:00Matthew, you were the friend I was referring to in...Matthew, you were the friend I was referring to in the first paragraph. You're right to mention the distinction between the loss of a belief in God and the loss of everything that one finds valuable, believing these things to come from God. I used to think, for example, that self-sacrifice could only be valued in Christianity; that I still value it shows that it's possible to hold this value as a non-believer.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03722157675784558619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-811245612519910855.post-57714086033222767132010-09-06T13:40:30.529-04:002010-09-06T13:40:30.529-04:00I remember this conversation, or at least a few li...I remember this conversation, or at least a few like it with you. I'm pretty sure that I said then what I said about being an atheist because when I imagine being an atheist, I imagine that everything my life is built on being untrue. I would imagine that you meant the same thing at the time, but in the interim you've found other things to build your life on.Matthewhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17986483712873196944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-811245612519910855.post-29331418080738454482010-09-01T17:08:01.885-04:002010-09-01T17:08:01.885-04:00Hi, Brian, thanks for reading and commenting!
Now...Hi, Brian, thanks for reading and commenting!<br /><br />Now, I don't think God exists, and I'm perfectly happy to say, God does not exist, period. That's a very definite statement.<br /><br />I definitely see what you're saying, and I agree. I think that a lot of what needs to be held open are ideas that people connect with God, that they treat as being a part of God, things like beauty and virtue and wonder and hope and love. I think that what you've said about God here applies to this bundle, too: all of these things are so great we can't wrap our minds around them, we can't enclose them.<br /><br />These ideas that a lot of people have about defining God very tightly and neatly aren't in congruity with most of religious history. The forms of religion that I find the most fascinating and captivating are the ones where there's a lot of weird stuff that hasn't been covered over or talked around. I think that it's a shame that religion is bundled as neatly as it is so often.Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03722157675784558619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-811245612519910855.post-46771491199213568292010-09-01T15:07:45.251-04:002010-09-01T15:07:45.251-04:00Hi Alex,
As always, a thought provoking post.
To...Hi Alex,<br /><br />As always, a thought provoking post.<br /><br />Today's society (western) has a huge problem living comfortably with uncertainty. We believe that everything should have an answer. It's interesting to me, that the oldest Christian denominations and Judaism are very comfortable with mystery as part of their belief in God. <br /><br />I wonder if we are loosing a key point about God when we try to answer all our questions. By definition, God should be so big that he/she can't ever be understood, yet we still try. Why do you think that is?Brian Highthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07306357650551548310noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-811245612519910855.post-3596726709808809622010-08-31T10:44:02.572-04:002010-08-31T10:44:02.572-04:00I was really trying to distinguish between positiv...I was really trying to distinguish between positive statements and normative statements, and to pose normativish statements as positive statements; this makes them easier to talk about. "You shouldn't paint graffiti on the overpass because that is not what a good person would do?" is a positive statement, and it means something if we agree what good means. I think that good is a matter of definition, it's not something handed down from space.<br /><br />I like the idea of a morality based on virtues and values, it's easier to talk about. I can care about such a morality, though, by talking about violating a norm, that act of violation, as a consequence.<br /><br />Avoiding a pit of fire isn't good moral reasoning, but it's certainly a valid way to think. I think it's equally morally nihilistic to want to obey God because one loves God and wants to do everything God says, without consideration of what his mandates mean on their own.<br /><br />And, agreed, God is unnecessary for a meaningful life. I think that the idea that God is necessary for there to be meaning is a more modern idea, it's not stated plainly in scriptures.<br /><br />Good thoughts, Yuriy, thanks!Alexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03722157675784558619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-811245612519910855.post-52115853636900531442010-08-31T03:52:58.100-04:002010-08-31T03:52:58.100-04:00How about "You shouldn't paint graffiti o...How about "You shouldn't paint graffiti on the overpass because that is not what a good person would do?"<br /><br />The point being, that morality (atheist or otherwise) does not need to be based on consequences. It can be based, for example, on values or virtues.<br /><br />Moreover, the reasoning "I shouldn't sin or else I will burn in an eternal pit of fire" is not something I would call good moral reasoning.<br />This is because acting as "God says" under threat is really an act of self preservation and not an act of appreciation of God's knowledge of right and wrong or consideration of what is morally good.<br />Paradoxically, that is exactly what a moral nihlist would do given the existance of God.<br /><br />On a completely separate point, the claim that life without God is empty or unfulfilled is completely absurd to an atheist (well, one that isn't depressed), for obvious reasons.truthealityhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01781120657948013412noreply@blogger.com